This is pretty deep so enter carefully

[southernfinery]

ok I wasn't sure which forum to put this under but being it can and does affect both genders then I chose this one.I know that there are a few members here that have been forced to comply with anothers wishes in some form or another and that is what I wish to commune about for a second.I am getting on up in age and I am still learning and so my thought process changes in how I comprehend some things like the issue of.I have always heard it said that wasn't about S-- but how can that be?I was watching a show called "cold case" the other night and it was set back in the 60's.There was a young woman of color that was being pursued by a young man of no color lol ok fine he was pale,anyway he was working with another man that acted like he hated ppl of color and was in a group with like-minded men including this young man that was interested in the young lady.These men sat around getting drunk and began saying how they needed to show this woman what her place was.The young guy who was interested in her ran to her first to try to get her to leave but the others got there and they proceeded to her.This young guy was told to help and so he put his hand over her eyes so she couldn't see their faces and he held her nose and mouth shut so she wouldn't have to suffer through it all(he smothered her) out of love.The thing that stayed with me was how that was all about S-- inthat that man that was egging the others on was ----ing after this woman.It wasn't exceptable and he had no jewels to speak of apparently so he disquised his ---- in hate but it was very clear to see.Let me come at you from a different angle,I have known a few guys that got on my bad side and the thought of touching them almost made me upchuck.The thought of teaching them a lesson did enter my mind but having to touch them then made the thought exit my mind.I know there are some really disturbed individuals out there but I also know that wishing to overpower someone in a s----l way is about wanting to have your way with someone.I mean I have heard that rapists will stalk their potential victim to learn their ways and habits so what is it that attracts that person to that victim but ----?Oh I know it can be them getting back at their parent or parents for forcing them to have S-- before they were ready mentally but even that was about S-- and ----.Imo to tell people that have been forced to engage in a s----l act that can sometimes result in a child being born that it had nothing to do with S-- is ridiculous.Imo these pervs wanted to enter this persons soul and touch a part of them by force that they knew they would never be able to touch by consent.So what I guess I wanted to say is that back when the people of color didn't mix with the palefaces and case upon case of was heard of from all sides that imo it was about ---- and it still is today.The act of doesn't change it's core value and that is ----.Please share your thoughts on this and Gbu for taking the time to.

[cookinbubbles]

`In some respects I agree with you but I think there is a line that is crossed in that removes the s----l aspect of it and a mans ----- becomes a weapon and S-- no longer enters the picture. Remember, many acts of involve objects other than a ----- and are clearly a weapon.
And remember, those who do end up raping are twisted in some extreme way that changes any normal desire or ---- or love. In that respect, the act of is about power and submission not a mutual sharing of a ecstasy.

On a side note, did you know that the act of humping between male dogs and also by a female dog humping a male dog has to do with dominance, not procreation?
I find it interesting that even in the animal kingdom, a pseudo S-- act is used to show dominance of one animal over the other.

[southernfinery]

`ty cookinbubbles and I agree that when they are doing the act of that it is about power but also about a mulitude of negative raw emotions like rejection or betrayal or even s----l abuse by someone close to them.In some aspects they become like the dogs you mentioned by wanting to dominate someone.I still believe that it in it's raw form is about s--.There is sadamasitic( glad I can't spell this one lol) and there are those that can only reach a level of ecstasy by laying on a corpse but that is about S-- or else they wouldn't reach that level of euphorism.I can't wrap my brain around someone finding the act of forceable penetration exciting or desirable but then again I don't understand evil and for that I am thankful.I know what does to a person and how that the victim knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were just se---lly violated.I know that years down the road the victim can't engage in lovemaking because of how the violation has effected their very soul and tore it into.I know that these victims usually have to go into phycotherapy to learn how to let go of the humilation and shame and absolute disgust at the thought of being touched in a s----l way.I guess what I'm saying is if the victim knows it was about S-- then doesn't the perv that's doing it in some sense.Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the one using the act of S-- as a weapon does so for the purpose of ripping apart the hopes and ideas the victim may have for the whole love,marriage,trust,white-picket fence with lots of kids that are loved and wanted kind of lifestyle because for one,it was done to them or two,they simply enjoy doing it?

[kylovelylady (deleted)]

`I believe that the act of has more to do with dominance and control than it does in the act of S-- itself. If you think about it, what is the one thing that women fear the most besides being killed? . It is not just the S-- that women fear, it is the lack of being able to control the situation and the viloence that it entails. You said it yourself

"I know what does to a person and how that the victim knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were just se---lly violated.I know that years down the road the victim can't engage in lovemaking because of how the violation has effected their very soul and tore it into."


If that is not control and dominance then I don't know what is. The rapist has contol over the woman that he violated for the rest of her life and he knows this.

You have come up with a good argument more on the side of dominance and control than you have on the side of S-- when you said

"Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the one using the act of S-- as a weapon does so for the purpose of ripping apart the hopes and ideas the victim may have for the whole love,marriage,trust,white-picket fence with lots of kids that are loved and wanted kind of lifestyle because for one,it was done to them or two,they simply enjoy doing it?

The act of S-- is used as a weapon. Yes the rapist does get s----l satisfaction from it most of the time but he gets even more satisfaction from the struggle and the fear in the womans eyes. He gets even more satisfaction from the knowledge of what he has done to her on the inside. He has ripped apart her very soul.

[sharlie27]

`By definiation is forced s--. It is Not about S-- though. It is about power. It is the control, the dominance and abuse of the victim that pleasures the rapist, not the actual act of s--. has nothing to do with color, economic standing or time. It is a horrible act of control that not only rapes (or abuses) a persons body but their soul. Men and women alike.
(removed)

[southernfinery]

`yes I see your point kylovelylady and thank you for posting.I really do appreciate you ladies taking the time to give this topic your attention.I guess that there may very well be different levels of and what I mean by that is that there seems to be different reasons for the act of forcing onesself onto another.For example when someone as a child is ed by a family member then this same child usually ends up growing up with this same er still in their lives on a daily basis almost.It isn't feasable to me to say that the er wanted to destroy the vics hopes and dreams because in alot of these cases the er is usually telling the victim to try and do other things and even can't seem to crasp the reason for relationship after relationship that the victim enters into ends so quickly and is full of bad patches.What I am speaking of is incest and the result or the effect it has on the physic is the same as it would be if you were in your late 20's and were attacked by a total stranger.Yet the reasons for the attacks aren't the same imo but then it does have to do with how close in relations the er is to the victim.If it happens betwen say brother and sister then some say it was mere curiousity but yet it was still incest.If it happens between a parent and a child then it is incest and it is also about which other,the dominance or the anilation of the soul?If it is date-rape then which force is that dealing with,the dominate or the anilation or just seeing the person as a means to an end?If someone is stalked by a complete stranger and attacked then yes I agree that that is about ripping their very souls out and about complete dominat... of another for the purpose of total anilation of their very soul.....

[southernfinery]

`thank you sharlie27.I didn't see ur post till after I had posted the last one of mine.I agree with you about it(rape)abusing the body and the soul.Again thanks for posting.

[sharlie27]

`Your posts Southernfinery bounce around. You are broaching several different s----l elements from, to incest to ation. All of which are done for different reason and have different psychological elements to them. One of the things they all have in common is that they are power abuses over people. You are combining too many things trying to find a common dominator and there is not one really except power/dominat.... You seem to be wanting a clear cut justification and there just is not one.

[kylovelylady (deleted)]

`I have to agree with Sharlie27.

[southernfinery]

`I do believe there is a common denominator and that is the evil behind it all.Let me also say that I don't believe that,incest or ation have different physicological elements to them but indeed can have some of the same repurcutions or reactions given time.Also please do feel free to add something that may be of help to someone who may have experienced one or more of these terrible attacks.Sharlie27 didn't I read where you are taking a physicology class.Have ya engaged in conversation of such books like"the three faces of Eve"If I am not mistaken that book was based on a real live case.I remember watching sally field in"Sybil" which could have been a continuance of the 3 faces of eve imo.In this book she had split personalities correct?There was an intense act of trauma from her childhood that was the cause of that split if I'm not mistaken.When a child is traumatized then the mind does things to protect that child like hold that memory behind a locked door till the child is at a place where they can attempt to deal with it or they can produce alter egos or personalities to protect the child. I know it may seem as though I am trying to figure it out or get one clear cut answer but I am actually just trying to discuss something that has victimized children as well as adults almost since time began.Again I thank you for your comments.

[obsequium (deleted)]

`Your original post addresses, which, as others have stated in this thread is more about power in most cases than anything else. The power trip fulfils a psychological need and in turn allows the rapist to achieve s----l satisfaction.

Incest and child ation or differ from the above for several reasons. Incest between two siblings of the same age can be con-------, and although it is technically s----l deviancy, it isn't about force or power. In the case of pedophiles, not all pedophiles are s----l sadists, and the s----l attraction to children for them is not always about power either.

I understand your vehement objection to these things, but we cannot simply lump them all together, as despite the moral destitution of the acts they have different motivators. Understanding these motivators helps us understand offenders, and may lead to their capture and rehabilitation (where possible).

[sharlie27]

`I am studying to be a psychologist. I am working on completeing my BS now. Southernfinery, you have jumped from one subject to another and confuses me beyond belief. I had issues with your orginial post because it was not really a question about and you seemed to have ignored the information that you have been given by myself and others on that one subject. Not to mention the lumping together of several different s----l matters. I agree with Obsequium and her entire post.( although I must object to the term s----l sadist when it comes to pedophiles because a true sadist is a whole other "evil"...and the term sadist is thrown out too easily in most cases)
If questions are had about any of these things that is great and can make for a very interesting and intelligent conversation but please understand the things you question can not be put together or understood as One thing.

[southernfinery]

`If my post had been read then I don't see how some can say they are confusing but then again I seem to address each post and choose not to lump them together therein giving each individual post the unique quality of being an individual post and thought.I really and truly can't wrap my brain around some of the bs floating back from some but let me address it anyway or attempt to clear up some confusion but on that let me add that when you are dealing or learning to deal with individuals on an extremely personal level then you are going to deal with alot of emotions from these individuals especially if they have been dealt a raw hand.In most cases you(the one with the degree) are there to help these people come to terms with their own confusion from all these raw emotions.If you can't get yourself and your need to be right on every level out of the picture then how can you give the individual that comes to you for help the proper attention the subject mandates.Now if you will direct your attention to my first response to cookinbubbles(ty dear for your post) and in the first sentence you will read how I said that I do agree that the act of is about power.In kylovelylady's post she stated that the rapist has control over the womans life that he for the rest of her life and he knows this,I truly understand how you can think this may be so but in fact it isn't if she chooses to become a survivor and not remain a victim but that has to be done in her own time and not forced upon her.Sharlie27 you stated that I was broaching several different s----l elements from to incest to ation so let me ask you what element do you see when you look at those three words?You said they have to do with power over another which let me direct you back to my response to cookinbubbles and the first line wherein I also said that I agree that it is about power.Now let me say something else.For any true survivor of or ation or incest there is a common denominator and that is the act of being forced.Imagine if you will a town called forced and it has different roads leading to it.One road is called problem with all authority.Another road is called not trusting anyone.Another road is called self-mutalation.Another road is called eating disorders and etc..Now picture if you will that before coming to these roads you must first climb or drive over a mountain called getting to a place where you feel safe.What I am trying to say is that all of these elements have another common denominator besides just being evil and that is that each of these is about forcing someone to do something beyond their own will.Each and every individual that has been forced to do something beyond their will that has to do with any of these s----l elements will at one time or another travel down these roads but it will end up in them realizing that they have been forced to do or participate in something that didn't want to.When they come to this town then they begin to pick up pieces of their shattered souls and from this point the healing or mending can begin.To each and every individual out there that has been forced in one of these ways I want you to know that I am praying for you and I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can become a survivor and I know it will take time.Let me also say that you must be extremely careful on your choice of a helper or driver to get you to the place of mending.In a church with a pastor or teacher is a good place to start.Don't be discouraged if you must take meds for a while,this is not a sign of you being weak but rather a sign of your inner strength.Realize also that there are those that will not be able to grasp what your going through so don't be to harsh on them in judging them unfit to be around.Realize also that this is going to be a learning process for you about you so patience is key.GBU all

[bigmandrew]

`I want to point out that normal men don't women. The rest of us find ourselves alone with children and women all the time and there's nothing in us that thinks we need to have S-- with this person no matter what. We may find the woman attractive, but we go about normal, social means of fulfilling our s----l urges. With that said, because I myself can say I've never been urged to have S-- with a child or non-consenting adult that a person who would do as such has something seriously wrong with them and needs immediate psychological help.

[dbigrod]

`Hey, this has nothing to do with color at all, you missing the point, as a man, who'd never force myself on a woman, these ppl are sick..it has nothing to do with color don't get the issues twisted. That's too easy, and far too superficial to give you any kind of definitive answer. is a crime of passion that is fueled by many stimuli...certainly none here can adequately answer your question without a full understanding of each, and every person involved in that dreadful act...ppl wanting to control others, is well beyond both color and current history, since the dawn of man this has been one of the more animalistic traits that remain, from time immoral. We just cannot say with any real conviction what the motive(s) were that lead up to and concluded in the unfortuate woman's violation...not enough is known about the ppl involved, period to make any reasonable judgments.